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View Poll Results: Pakistan's combination for the South Africa Tests?

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  • 6 batsmen, 4 bowlers

    16 53.33%
  • 5 batsmen, 2 all-rounders, 3 bowlers

    14 46.67%
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  1. #1
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    Pakistan's combination for the South Africa Tests: 6+4 or 5+2+3?

    6 batsmen + 4 bowlers

    OR

    5 batsmen + 2 all-rounders + 3 bowlers


    I think this will be a very tough decision for the team management. Mickey is much more comfortable with the latter combination and is not a fan of long tails. Faheem has been bowling decently in recent times, while Shadab was surprisingly effective with his stock delivery in the ODIs recently (he said in an interview that he bowled googlies only a few times in the whole series). He's also landing the leg-spinner quite consistently now, though he probably isn't close to being a Test match level bowler yet.

    The 6+4 which is favoured on PP (probably Abbas, Hasan, Yasir and maybe Shaheen) looks more well-rounded in terms of bowling but the 5th bowler option becomes pretty weak. The team would probably like a fourth pacer; instead, you'll have probably just Haris as the fifth bowler. On the plus side, Sarfaraz can bat at #7 in this lineup while he'd probably be a tad too high at #6 in the other combination, unless Shadab was to be promoted (unlikely). Yasir's recent form also makes this a more favourable combination, though his probable effectiveness in SA is up for debate.

    After the England tour, I felt that the management will retain the 5+2+3 for future series outside Asia but now I'm not so sure. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Abdullah719; 26th November 2018 at 20:38.


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  2. #2
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    6+4 imo is a lot better. For the test at Jo'burg Yasir can be replaced by another pacer

  3. #3
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    Haris Sohail can bowl part time spin. It seems like Hafeez may be in the eleven so thats extra two spinners. I dont think we need an al rounder. So it will be Abbass, Shaheen, Hasan Ali & Yasir Shah as the main bowlers

  4. #4
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    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

  5. #5
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    we don't have any alrounder. we have some batsman who can bowl Lil bit & we have some bowlers who can bat a Lil bit. 6-4 is the only scenario unless somebody is counting the aforesaid batsman/bowlers as alrounders.

  6. #6
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    Bowlers should be selected on bowling merit and not for the potential to score 20 more runs.

    I think I am leaning towards a 4 man pace attack with Haris as a 5th bowler.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasan123 View Post
    Bowlers should be selected on bowling merit and not for the potential to score 20 more runs.

    I think I am leaning towards a 4 man pace attack with Haris as a 5th bowler.
    It will be hard to leave Yasir out now

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsalan Pro View Post
    It will be hard to leave Yasir out now
    Yasir should play. Can't believe I was even contemplating Shadab over Yasir when I am a big believer in specalists over all rounders who don't make the team on batting or bowling merit.

    Yasir
    Shaheen
    Hasan
    Abbas

    Then the best 6 batsmen.

  9. #9
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    If Yasir plays then only option is 6+4 and I think he should play given his recent performance

    Yasir + 3 pacers is the way to go for at least the 1st Test.

  10. #10
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    I am leaning towards the two allrounders. We saw how crucial lower order runs were in our victory over England. Just look at Englandís batting as an example.

    Now obviously we donít have as good allrounders that bat as well as Curran or Woakes but Faheem and Shadab did a good job in England. We saw how impressive Shadab was with the bat in tough batting conditions. I will admit I was not convinced by his batting in LOI recently but his batting in tests on that England tour was really good.

    Also people forget that Yasir wonít be that useful on non Asian pitches. There wonít be much turn. So why not try and get an extra 30 an innings? The only possible problem is that Shadab is pretty raw as a bowler and may be targeted but I still think his batting could be a huge bonus.

    Then pick your five best bats:

    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Shafiq
    Safaraz
    Shadab
    Faheem
    Hasan
    Abbas
    Shaheen

    Maybe Amir can play for Hasan or Shaheen.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Perfect.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    That is a veryy good squad right there.

  13. #13
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    They can also try 5+1+4, but that would weaken the already fragile batting lineup.

  14. #14
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    I think it's very easy to get carried away with Yasir's best spell of his career and thus pick him for the SA tour on this basis. However I feel his lack of control could cost us dearly in South Africa and his last tour of Aus actually indicates this as well.

    I don't think SA will even think about giving us dry wickets, so the importance of the main spinner is to be able to bowl economically and keep it tight - used as a defensive option. Yasir Shah nor Shadab do this very well as do a lot of wrist spinners since it is a more difficult art to master. Even today the former went at 4 an over despite being on a roll.

    Also SA are more susceptible to right arm off spin - Moeen Ali has ran through them in both of the home and away series where he picked up MOTS when he toured there. It is better we play Hafeez or Bilal Asif as the primary spinner batting at 7/8. The latter will provide bounce and stem the flow of runs effectively whereas Hafeez will give us a few more runs batting lower down (unless he gets Steyn-ed again).

    I appreciate we need to move on from Hafeez and Bilal's batting isn't good enough at 8, but I would rather take a calculated risk rather than an out and out gamble in Yasir or Shadab who I fear will give easy runs and provide little returns in the wicket column.

    It is a tough decision to make but I'll go for the following XI:

    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Hafeez/Bilal Asif
    Hasan Ali
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Last edited by topspin; 26th November 2018 at 21:53.

  15. #15
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    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Asad
    Hafeez
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Amir
    Shaheen
    Hasan
    Abbas

    4 front line seamers and Hafeez, Haris, Fakhar, Asad, Azhar can all bowl a fair bit.

    Yasir can play in J'burg

  16. #16
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    :o wowww was just thinking the same!

    Dil sai di lko rah hoti hai @Abdullah719 :p

    Its a tough one but i will make my batting strong so would have a batting order like:

    Azhar
    Abid/Fakhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Saad/Usman
    Saud/Fakhar

    With Saud and Haris sharing the fifth bowler's role.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    :o wowww was just thinking the same!

    Dil sai di lko rah hoti hai @Abdullah719 :p

    Its a tough one but i will make my batting strong so would have a batting order like:

    Azhar
    Abid/Fakhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Saad/Usman
    Saud/Fakhar

    With Saud and Haris sharing the fifth bowler's role.
    Bhai I have been thinking of this for weeks

    I was pretty sure that they will opt for Faheem/Shadab but Yasir will have interrupted the plans now.

    It's not an easy decision...


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Bhai I have been thinking of this for weeks

    I was pretty sure that they will opt for Faheem/Shadab but Yasir will have interrupted the plans now.

    It's not an easy decision...
    Bro tell me your 6 batsmen :p
    I mean who you think should be the 6 not those who you think the management will play.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Bro tell me your 6 batsmen :p
    I mean who you think should be the 6 not those who you think the management will play.
    Fakhar.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    Fakhar.
    ??

    I meant top 6.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    ??

    I meant top 6.
    I thought you meant the Number 6

    Azhar
    Imam
    Haris
    Babar
    Usman
    Fakhar

    Tentative batting lineup. Imam has been looking very lose outside the off-stump but it's a bit late to change both openers... If Abid Ali is good (haven't seen a lot of him) then he should get a go. Would also bring some 'experience'. Prefer Usman over Saad as I think he's better against pace, both have performances for the A team. Fakhar at 6 to bring something different to the side against the older, or semi-older ball.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    I thought you meant the Number 6

    Azhar
    Imam
    Haris
    Babar
    Usman
    Fakhar

    Tentative batting lineup. Imam has been looking very lose outside the off-stump but it's a bit late to change both openers... If Abid Ali is good (haven't seen a lot of him) then he should get a go. Would also bring some 'experience'. Prefer Usman over Saad as I think he's better against pace, both have performances for the A team. Fakhar at 6 to bring something different to the side against the older, or semi-older ball.
    Haha yessh

    Fit hai my lineup is similar, no Asad :p
    Would prefer Fakhar at 6 rather opening too.

    But bas yahan msla 5th bowler ka hai....

    Imam pai i like him because he is a pressure player but like you said he is lose outside the off-stump and struggling even against Grandhomme in UAE>
    Last edited by SarfiBabarHaris; 26th November 2018 at 22:46.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  23. #23
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    Pak has to go with 6 specialist batsmen with Sarfaraz at 7. If you go with 5 batsmen with Faheem at 7, you need to play Shadab at 8 because both of them have to play together. In that case, either Yasir won't get to play or Pak will have to play only 2 specialist pacers to get Yasir in the 11. Faheem is not good enough as a 3rd pacer in tests. So, I will go with 6 specialist batsmen.

  24. #24
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    Whilst I know it will be pace friendly in SA, Yasir Shah is too good to leave out. I would go with the following:-

    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad (not totally sure about his spot or who could replace him)
    Saad Ali
    Sarfraz
    Yasir
    Hasan Ali
    Amir or Shaheen
    Abbas

  25. #25
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    It will be the same squad, with possibly Hafeez giving way for Fakhar and Bilal for Shaheen or other fast bowler.

    6-4 it is

  26. #26
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    6 + 4. We need the batting and the bowling is good enough to knock the Saffers over twice without any help from all-rounders.

    Besides, Haris is a pretty decent part-time option if it ever comes to that.

  27. #27
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    Definitely 5 + 2 + 3 because:

    1. The batsmen are rubbish and will generally collapse to 60-4.

    2. Two of the Tests are at high altitude where Yasir Shah will be ineffective. His record in Australia in similar conditions is catastrophic.

    3. The only bowlers who canít bat who demand selection in South African conditions are Mohammad Abbas and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

    4. To keep the quick bowlers able to bowl fast spells, a fourth fast bowler is non-negotiable - itís essential.

    Given that the batsmen will usually collapse to 60-4 by the time the ball loses its shine, Iíd be selecting:

    6. Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
    7. Shadab Khan - mainly as a batter
    8. Faheem Ashraf - mainly as a batter
    9. Mohammad Amir - with his batting as important as his bowling.
    10. Shaheen Shah Afridi - to bowl only one rapid 4 over spell per session.
    11. Mohammad Abbas
    Last edited by Junaids; 26th November 2018 at 23:32.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Definitely 5 + 2 + 3 because:

    1. The batsmen are rubbish and will generally collapse to 60-4.

    2. Two of the Tests are at high altitude where Yasir Shah will be ineffective. His record in Australia in similar conditions is catastrophic.

    3. The only bowlers who can’t bat who demand selection in South African conditions are Mohammad Abbas and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

    4. To keep the quick bowlers able to bowl fast spells, a fourth fast bowler is non-negotiable - it’s essential.

    Given that the batsmen will usually collapse to 60-4 by the time the ball loses its shine, I’d be selecting:

    6. Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
    7. Shadab Khan - mainly as a batter
    8. Faheem Ashraf - mainly as a batter
    9. Mohammad Amir - with his batting as important as his bowling.
    10. Shaheen Shah Afridi - to bowl only one rapid 4 over spell per session.
    11. Mohammad Abbas
    I knew you and @MMHS would enjoy this


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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Definitely 5 + 2 + 3 because:

    1. The batsmen are rubbish and will generally collapse to 60-4.

    2. Two of the Tests are at high altitude where Yasir Shah will be ineffective. His record in Australia in similar conditions is catastrophic.

    3. The only bowlers who canít bat who demand selection in South African conditions are Mohammad Abbas and Shaheen Shah Afridi.

    4. To keep the quick bowlers able to bowl fast spells, a fourth fast bowler is non-negotiable - itís essential.

    Given that the batsmen will usually collapse to 60-4 by the time the ball loses its shine, Iíd be selecting:

    6. Sarfraz Ahmed (c/wk)
    7. Shadab Khan - mainly as a batter
    8. Faheem Ashraf - mainly as a batter
    9. Mohammad Amir - with his batting as important as his bowling.
    10. Shaheen Shah Afridi - to bowl only one rapid 4 over spell per session.
    11. Mohammad Abbas
    Batting Sarfaraz at no.6 and hoping that Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf are going to save the day and score some runs is not an ideal approach I am afraid. All you need is 4 quality bowlers and a handy 5th part timer in a test bowling attack. Unless you have a Ben Stokes of course.

    I say pick 6 good batsmen and hope they are going to get the job done of scoring the runs.

    I know we did poorly in Australia but that was more to do with the fact that the players didnt do their job (rather than the combination).
    Last edited by gazza619; 26th November 2018 at 23:52.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    I knew you and @MMHS would enjoy this
    I just canít emphasise enough two things, having already attended 2 Tests in South Africa this year.

    1. The combination of extra bounce from the pitch and movement for 30 overs of the Kookaburra ball means that your top four batsmen are gone inside those 30 overs - ask the Indians who toured in January!

    a) Both teams will take almost every wicket with quick bowlers.

    b) Both teams should be 80-4 after 30 overs. The team which wins will be the team whose all-rounders at numbers 7, 8 and 9 score the most runs.

    c) In South Africa at altitude you pick the spinner who bats the best! Yasir Shah has an awful record in Australia, and the extra bounce at Johannesburg and Centurion will make him even more of a liability. He is only an option at Cape Town, at sea level, where there is less bounce.

    d) Four quicks is non-negotiable, or you end up in Misbahís Aussie Hell, overbowling your quicks until they bowl slower and less accurately.

  31. #31
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    My team for 1st test vs SA:

    1. Fakhar Zaman
    2. Azhar Ali
    3. Babar Azam
    4. Haris Sohail
    5. Muhammad Hafeez
    6. Asad Shafiq
    7. Sarfaraz Ahmed
    8. Yasir Shah
    9. Hasan Ali
    10. Shaheen Afridi
    11. Muhammad Abbass

  32. #32
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    Keep Yasir shah out.

    If the coach captain now pick him after the 8fer, it will show lack of cricketing acumen, pure ignorance.

    Pick 4 pacers at any cost.

    The rest pure batsmen.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazza619 View Post
    Batting Sarfaraz at no.6 and hoping that Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf are going to save the day and score some runs is not an ideal approach I am afraid. All you need is 4 quality bowlers and a handy 5th part timer in a test bowling attack. Unless you have a Ben Stokes of course.

    I say pick 6 good batsmen and hope they are going to get the job done of scoring the runs.

    I know we did poorly in Australia but that was more to do with the fact that the players didnt do their job (rather than the combination).
    Pakistanís batsmen should ALREADY be in South Africa adapting to the extra bounce. But they are stuck on flat UAE decks until the eve of the series.

    They are a lost cause. By the time the ball loses its shine at 30 overs they will already have lost Imam, Azhar, Haris and Shafiq.

    Itís always going to be Babar and the middle order having to try to add another 150 runs between overs 30 and 80 to lift 80-4 to 230 all out.

    Thatís why you pick Shadab Khan instead of Yasir Shah: you can defend a total of 230 but not 180.

    Thatís why you pick Faheem Ashraf instead of Ehsan Adil - you need his runs and time at the crease.

    Thatís why you pick Mohammad Amir ahead of Hasan Ali - you need his runs and time at the crease.

    The only way to win this series is for all-rounders to tip the balance in a low-scoring series, along the lines of:

    Pakistan (230 and 220) defeated South Africa (240 and 200) by 10 runs.

    In my scenario it goes like this:

    Imam 90 runs at an average of 15.
    Azhar 200 runs at 33.
    Shafiq 150 runs at 25.
    Haris 150 runs at 25
    Babar 300 runs at 50.
    Sarfraz 150 runs at 25.
    Shadab 150 runs at 25 plus 6 wickets at 30.
    Faheem 150 runs at 25 plus 9 wickets at 25.
    Amir 120 runs at 20 plus 15 wickets at 20.
    Shaheen 30 runs at 5 plus 15 wickets at 15.
    Abbas 30 runs at 5 plus 15 wickets at 15.

  34. #34
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    I'm not for Yasir playing in South Africa. I'd go with 6 batsmen and 4 pacers, with Haris to bowl as the fifth over playing Yasir. South Africa is very different to Australia, granted we get the same pitches that India got last year. In South Africa, we won't be bowling 120+ overs in an innings even once (Hopefully), so the fast bowlers won't be bowling more than 30 overs in an innings, which they should be able to do. My only fear is a repeat of the Australian tour, where our fast bowlers just weren't fit enough for a 4 pacemen attack. But the personnel has changed quite a bit, and Mickey has been instilling his fitness regime for over 2 years now.

    That being said, the 2 all rounder strategy worked for us in England and Ireland, and tbh I think Mickey will stick with that. I think Faheem is a pretty good bowler, he hits the deck hard, and gets movement off the seam, which is perfect for the conditions, but his batting does not inspire any confidence. A lot will depend on their batting. Shadab and Faheem need to add at least 50 runs every innings if this strategy is to succeed.

    Against India last year, South Africa went with a 5+2+3 strategy, with their all rounders being Keshav Maharaj and Vernon Philander. I don't think our all rounders are nearly as good. Vernon Philander is on a different planet as a bowler, and probably a better batsmen too. Maharaj is a better spinner than Shadab but definitely worse as a batsmen.

    The decision is pretty hard to make, and I'm happy I'm not the one making it. I think I'd go with the 6+4 though. My 11 would be:

    Fakhar
    Imam
    Azhar
    Haris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Amir
    Hasan
    Abbas
    Shaheen


    Does cricket survive off of it's money or does it survive for it's money?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by aloo paratha View Post
    I'm not for Yasir playing in South Africa. I'd go with 6 batsmen and 4 pacers, with Haris to bowl as the fifth over playing Yasir. South Africa is very different to Australia, granted we get the same pitches that India got last year. In South Africa, we won't be bowling 120+ overs in an innings even once (Hopefully), so the fast bowlers won't be bowling more than 30 overs in an innings, which they should be able to do. My only fear is a repeat of the Australian tour, where our fast bowlers just weren't fit enough for a 4 pacemen attack. But the personnel has changed quite a bit, and Mickey has been instilling his fitness regime for over 2 years now.

    That being said, the 2 all rounder strategy worked for us in England and Ireland, and tbh I think Mickey will stick with that. I think Faheem is a pretty good bowler, he hits the deck hard, and gets movement off the seam, which is perfect for the conditions, but his batting does not inspire any confidence. A lot will depend on their batting. Shadab and Faheem need to add at least 50 runs every innings if this strategy is to succeed.

    Against India last year, South Africa went with a 5+2+3 strategy, with their all rounders being Keshav Maharaj and Vernon Philander. I don't think our all rounders are nearly as good. Vernon Philander is on a different planet as a bowler, and probably a better batsmen too. Maharaj is a better spinner than Shadab but definitely worse as a batsmen.

    The decision is pretty hard to make, and I'm happy I'm not the one making it. I think I'd go with the 6+4 though. My 11 would be:

    Fakhar
    Imam
    Azhar
    Haris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Amir
    Hasan
    Abbas
    Shaheen
    We loose the plot when we say that Philander and Maharaj are merely better allrounders than Shadab and Faheem. They both make the team on their bowling alone.

    Indeed, there is no better spinner than Maharaj in all of South Africa, there are possibly two but not three better pace bowlers than Philander in South Africa, if one needs them to bowl in South Africa.

    The same cannot be said for Shadab and Faheem, by any stretch of the imagination. We have better spinners and pacers than these.

    Going on Yasir's current form I would be very reluctant to leave him out of the tour, certainly out of all the games. Recall the success that Mushi had when Pakistan last won a Test in South Africa.
    Last edited by New Yorker; 27th November 2018 at 02:51.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Pakistan’s batsmen should ALREADY be in South Africa adapting to the extra bounce. But they are stuck on flat UAE decks until the eve of the series.

    They are a lost cause. By the time the ball loses its shine at 30 overs they will already have lost Imam, Azhar, Haris and Shafiq.

    It’s always going to be Babar and the middle order having to try to add another 150 runs between overs 30 and 80 to lift 80-4 to 230 all out.

    That’s why you pick Shadab Khan instead of Yasir Shah: you can defend a total of 230 but not 180.

    That’s why you pick Faheem Ashraf instead of Ehsan Adil - you need his runs and time at the crease.

    That’s why you pick Mohammad Amir ahead of Hasan Ali - you need his runs and time at the crease.

    The only way to win this series is for all-rounders to tip the balance in a low-scoring series, along the lines of:

    Pakistan (230 and 220) defeated South Africa (240 and 200) by 10 runs.

    In my scenario it goes like this:

    Imam 90 runs at an average of 15.
    Azhar 200 runs at 33.
    Shafiq 150 runs at 25.
    Haris 150 runs at 25
    Babar 300 runs at 50.
    Sarfraz 150 runs at 25.
    Shadab 150 runs at 25 plus 6 wickets at 30.
    Faheem 150 runs at 25 plus 9 wickets at 25.
    Amir 120 runs at 20 plus 15 wickets at 20.
    Shaheen 30 runs at 5 plus 15 wickets at 15.
    Abbas 30 runs at 5 plus 15 wickets at 15.
    It's an interesting perspective, @Junaids.

    But it won't work like that, you have too optimistic numbers. Even the average of 25, that too for almost everyone, is too high.

    Shadab/Faheem will likely average between 8-15.

    Some of our batsmen too will be under 20.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    We loose the plot when we say that Philander and Maharaj are merely better allrounders than Shadab and Faheem. They both make the team on their bowling alone.

    Indeed, there is no better spinner than Maharaj in all of South Africa, there are possibly two but not three better pace bowlers than Philander in South Africa, if one needs them to bowl in South Africa.

    The same cannot be said for Shadab and Faheem, by any stretch of the imagination. We have better spinners and pacers than these.

    Going on Yasir's current form I would be very reluctant to leave him out of the tour, certainly out of all the games. Recall the success that Mushi had when Pakistan last won a Test in South Africa.
    I think you lose the plot tbh by making it into an ďall-rounders versus bowlersĒ decision.

    Itís not: Shaheen and Abbas are the only Pakistan bowlers certain to succeed in South Africa.

    The real issue is whether the top five batsmen can ALL be guaranteed to average at least 40, which would mean the team had enough runs in it.

    So there arenít enough runs in the Pakistan batting precisely BECAUSE of the quality of the South African bowling attack.

    So sure, pick the best two bowlers.

    But in South Africa you need four quicks plus or minus a spinner.

    And so, given the inability of the batters to score enough runs, bowlers 3-5 need to be picked for their batting, not their bowling.

    Pakistan went to England in 2010 with similarly awful batting (with Younis and Yousuf on the Ijaz Butt blacklist).

    And they kept being 100 all out and losing, in spite of the bowling of Amir and Asif.

    Next month the batting will be 80-4 all the time. Whether there are 6 batsmen or 5 batsmen PLUS 3 all-rounders.

    And my argument is that the all-rounders can turn 80-4 into 230 all out, whereas 6 batsmen plus a 5 man tail would be 120 all out.

  38. #38
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    3 Fast bowlers + Yasir Shah. Haris Sohail can bowl as well.

    However Micky will need to chose between Shaheen or Aamir.

    Aamirís experience might get him a nod.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    This is perfect. It's just difficult to decide between Amir and Yasir. If we go with Amir, Will Haris be good enough with the ball if he is needed? Difficult decision...

    Indian fans should know what is required, right?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    Good team. I wouldn't play Fakhar though. Need more solidity at the top. So would pick Imam.
    Yasir should play, so either of Shaheen or Amir misses out.

  41. #41
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    Media release

    Tickets for the Standard Bank Proteas upcoming home international season go on sale from today, Monday 26 November 2018.

    “As we prepare for a bumper home season with both Pakistan and Sri Lanka visiting our shores, we can all look forward to a programme of top class international cricket,” commented CSA Chief Executive, Thabang Moroe.

    “Last season the Standard Bank Proteas international matches were extremely well attended, and, on behalf of the Proteas and CSA, I would like to thank all our fans for their wonderful support.

    ”Pakistan, who are our guests during the holiday period and the festive season, will be extremely tough opposition that will provide just the test our Proteas need in their build-up to next year’s ICC Men’s World Cup in the British Isles.

    “They are currently the No. 1 ranked side in T20 International cricket and the No. 5 ranked side in ODI cricket. Their performances in the latter format include victory in the 2017 edition of the ICC Champions Trophy Tournament.

    “Their recent results in Test cricket include a series draw away to England earlier this year and a more recent victory over Australia on their neutral home ground.

    “In all, our fans can look forward to 5 Test matches, 10 Momentum One-Day Internationals and 6 KFC T20 International matches during our action-packed home summer,” concluded Mr. Moroe.

    There’s good news for Official Proteas Supporters’ Club (OPSC) members too – the OPSC has been upgraded! Memberships for the new and improved OPSC opens next week! Gold members will be entitled to the following:

    Complimentary tickets (1 for every ODI, 2 complimentary tickets for every Test day)
    25% off 4 tickets for every match
    From 03 December, fans can join the Official Proteas Supporters’ Club by visiting www.opsc.co.za.



    HOME SUMMER INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMME



    PAKISTAN TOUR TO SA 2018/19



    December 19-21: 10h00, Three-day tour match v SA Invitation XI, Willowmoore Park, Benoni

    December 26-30: 10h00, 1st Test match, SuperSport Park, Centurion

    January 3-7 : 10h30, 2nd Test match, PPC Newlands, Cape Town

    January 11-15 : 10h00, 3rd Test match, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg

    January 19 : 13h00, 1st Momentum ODI, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth (D/N)

    January 22 : 13h00, 2nd Momentum ODI, Kingsmead, Durban (D/N)

    January 25 : 13h00, 3rd Momentum ODI, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

    January 27 : 10h00, 4th Momentum ODI, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

    January 30 : 13h00, 5th Momentum ODI, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

    February 1 : 18h00, 1st KFC T20 International, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

    February 3 : 14h30, 2nd KFC T20 International, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

    February 6 : 18h00, 3rd KFC T20 International, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)



    SRI LANKA TOUR TO SA 2019



    February 13-17 : 10h00, 1st Test match, Kingsmead, Durban

    February 21-25 : 10h00, 2nd Test match, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth

    February 28 : 10h00, One-Day tour match v SA Invitation XI, Willowmoore Park, Benoni (Day)

    March 3 : 10h00, 1st Momentum ODI, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg (Day)

    March 6 : 13h00, 2nd Momentum ODI, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

    March 10 : 10h00, 3rd Momentum ODI, Kingsmead, Durban (Day)

    March 13 : 13h00, 4th Momentum ODI, St. George’s Park, Port Elizabeth (D/N)

    March 16 : 13h00, 5th Momentum ODI, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

    March 19 : 18h00, 1st KFC T20 International, PPC Newlands, Cape Town (D/N)

    March 22 : 18h00, 2nd KFC T20 International, SuperSport Park, Centurion (D/N)

    March 24 : 14h30, 3rd KFC T20 International, Bidvest Wanderers Stadium (Day)


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Keep Yasir shah out.

    If the coach captain now pick him after the 8fer, it will show lack of cricketing acumen, pure ignorance.

    Pick 4 pacers at any cost.

    The rest pure batsmen.
    So who would be the fourth pacer?


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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarwar89 View Post
    3 Fast bowlers + Yasir Shah. Haris Sohail can bowl as well.

    However Micky will need to chose between Shaheen or Aamir.

    Aamirís experience might get him a nod.
    Sorry, no way.

    That was Misbahís error in Australia.

    Four quicks is a non-negotiable requirement.

    Bowling fast with a 2 minute spin over as your rest wears you out.

  44. #44
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    What everyone forgets is that when it comes to leg spin & pitches- if it seams, it also spins. Warne knew that & took plenty of wickets in SA.

    Yasir could too. On a green seamer he'll get turn too & be an different threat to the seamers. And a 4th/5th day anywhere in the world is spinner time & he's a cut above anything SA can offer there. You'll miss a trick if you don't play yasir.

    I don't for 1 second think Micky Arthur is considering leaving him out, only PP'ers.

    I think first test, you back your 4 bowlers to get it done & give yourself every chance to score a defendable total. 6 bats. Hasan is back in form. Abbas has all the makings of a Philander. Shaheen is a risk but has height & pace your attack dearly needs. Yasir should be able to bamboozle a tailender or two at least in the first innings & be a threat late in the match. That's a spinners job in SA.

    Do your allrounders honestly offer anything which improves your bowling attack or batting lineup better than what others offer? No. Bits & piecers then just for the sake of "covering". Negative.

    Quicks can handle 20-22 overs each most days + 18 from Yasir on average. 6-10 overs a day from part timers is ok. Hafeez & Sohail aren't bad at all.

  45. #45
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    -) 6 proper batsmen (without Hafeez & imam)

    -) Wicket keeper

    -) 3 pacers ( Abas, Hasan, Shaheen)

    -) Yasir Shah

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreadPakoda View Post
    Good team. I wouldn't play Fakhar though. Need more solidity at the top. So would pick Imam.
    Yasir should play, so either of Shaheen or Amir misses out.
    Perfect squad, but Yasir should feature in playing 11 instead of a pacer.

  47. #47
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    Whatever combination we play we will regularly be 50-3. Hafeez has to combat the Steyn factor again and everyone else will be providing consistent slip catching practice for the Saffers

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShahidDar08 View Post
    -) 6 proper batsmen (without Hafeez & imam)

    -) Wicket keeper

    -) 3 pacers ( Abas, Hasan, Shaheen)

    -) Yasir Shah
    Completely agree. Play your six best batsmen and four best bowlers. If your specialist batsmen cannot handle Steyn, Philander and Rabada then what makes anyone think all-rounders or tailenders will ? We all saw how our lower order (which had an all-rounder in Bilal Asif) fared in a pressure situation in Abu Dhabi last week.

    If you play Shadab Khan at 7 that also means Sarfraz Ahmed bats at 6 which is too high for a struggling batsman with deficiencies against quality pace.

    Anyway, the test of any all-rounder is they must merit selection in at least one department, not doing bits and pieces with bat and ball. I rate Shadab Khan as a future prospect but isn't better than a specialist batsman. He is also way short of FC bowling experience. In Tests he is too expensive as he lacks control. Whatever extra 10-20 runs he provides won't compensate for the lack of the threat with the ball.

    Fahim Ashraf has a stronger claim as he can slot in at 8 for Yasir Shah if conditions merit an all-pace attack, most likely in Johannesburg.

    Finally, about this idea we need five bowlers to give the pacers a rest - firstly we have Haris who is a handy part-timer. Secondly, given how flimsy both batting teams are and the likelihood of bowling friendly pitches - these Tests likely won't go into a 5th day. So I don't think fatigue will be as big a factor for a four man attack as it was in Australia on very flat tracks 2 years ago.

  49. #49
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    Let the squad be announced first and then we can discuss the best possible 11. I have a feeling it will be worth playing Faheem as 4th seem bowler.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas
    the best they can field but unrealistic as nephews are not easy to drop

  51. #51
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    Imam
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Fakhar
    Sarfraz
    Shadab
    Faheem
    Hassan
    Abbas
    Afridi

  52. #52
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    Imam
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Fakhar
    Sarfaraz
    Shadab
    Amir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

  53. #53
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    6 batsmen
    1 keeper
    4 bowlers(yasir , shaheen , hassan and abbas).


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  54. #54
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    It's going to be tough to drop Yasir now.I personally like 5-2-3.It would be interesting to see how Yasir performs in SA.

  55. #55
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    Pakistan should focus on their strengths which is their bowling. 6 batsmen (including Sarfraz) + Faheem Ashraf + Yasir + 3 seamers

    First test is at Centurion which provides some assistance to spinners in the later stages of the test match so Yasir should play there. At Cape Town and Jo'burg though they can even consider going for 5 seamers. Pitches there are usually green-tops

  56. #56
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    Shadab is nowhere near a proper test bowler atm. I know he can provide some handy runs down the order but honestly I'd rather go with a gun-bowler like Yasir who promises more with the ball than what Shadab promises with both bat and ball

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    So who would be the fourth pacer?
    Easy choice.

    Amir
    Abbas
    Hassan
    Shaheen or Faheem if you need batting.

  58. #58
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    1.Azhar Ali
    2.Imam Ul Haq
    3.Haris Sohail
    4.Asad Shafiq
    5.Babar Azam
    6.Sarfraz Ahmed
    7.Faheem Ashraf
    8.Mohammad Amir
    9.Mohammad Abbas
    10.Hasan Ali
    11.Yasir Shah
    Last edited by Chokli; 27th November 2018 at 14:58.

  59. #59
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    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Saad
    Sardraz
    A Yamin
    S Khan
    Hassan
    Mir Hamza / Junaid
    M Abbas

  60. #60
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    Not again:

    6 + 4 works in UAE/Asia because one spinner can bowl 30-40 overs an innings aka Yasir Shah. That is not possible in West, nobody plays with 4 bowlers. You need five bowlers to win...Seamers have to be fresh, not run down like Misbah did in AUS and end up with 3 bowlers by 3rd test...

    Pakistan now has two allrounders that give us a hope in test. Keep in mind we would have lost to Ireland and to England in Lords, have we not played Shadab and Faheem...India lost 2 test in ENG because of allrounders stuck in, ENG is even winning in SL because of allrounders... Outside your home you need insurance policy of allrounders to keep you in the game...We have lost 90% of tests in West because of top order collapses, that must be prevented, its that simple :

    5 + 2 + 3 is best possible combination we can have. In past we did not have decent allrounders(I mean last tour), this time Faheem and Shadab are much better. I would even put Shadab before Sarfraz...

    Best time to bat in SA is between 40-80 overs of first innings. We will be 120-140/5 by 40th over, after that shadab, Faheem, Amir will ensure we can take it to 280/300, that will setup the match...Long tail is key to success...

    I would play:

    1. Fakhir
    2. Azhar
    3. Harris
    4. Shafiq
    5. Babar
    6. Sarfraz
    7. Shadab
    8. Faheem
    9. Amir
    10. Afridi
    11. Abbas

    I know this is not going to happen, that is like 6/7 changes to test team. That is the main problem, we have to practically play a new team their. Problem is our current team is so much geared towards UAE, its impossible to win with this team outside Asia... You can see most fans are blind sided with 6+4, any western fan will tell you, that's not how you play in West...


    If you want to do things that are certain to succeed, you are doing very obvious thing - E Musk

  61. #61
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    I would go for 5 Regular batsmen, 1 wicket keeper, 1allrounder and 4 bowlers.
    Haris sohail... Batsman
    Azhar ali.... Batsman
    Asad shafiq
    Babar azam
    Fakhar Zalman...
    Rizwan ...wk
    Faheem Ashraf... Allrounder
    Yasir... Bowler
    M. Abbas
    Naseem shah
    Amir
    Reserves
    Shaheen afridi
    Hassan ali
    Imad wasim.... As allrounder
    Usman salahuddin
    Imam

  62. #62
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    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Saad
    Sarfraz
    Amir / Yasir
    Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    Amir and Yasir would swap based on pitch conditions. But knowing Mickey he will likely play:

    Imam
    Hafeez
    Azhar
    Haris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Sarfaraz
    Faheem
    Yasir
    Hassan
    Abbas

    If he is feeling extra gutsy he may drop Hafeez and ask Azhar to open with Sarfaraz moving to 6 and Shadab at 7. This is what he went with in England.

    Regardless 3-0 to SA 🤕

  63. #63
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    5+2+3

    Azhar
    Fakhar
    Harris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Shadab
    Sarfaraz
    Faheem
    Amir/Hassan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    People are under rating both Shadab and Faheem. They saved us from embarrassment against Ireland, then there partnership against England in the first test was important as well. Shadab scored 3 consecutive fifties away from home in his last tour. He will be more potent as a bowler outside Asia as compared to Yasir Shah. Hopefully Mickey will play Shadab and Faheem in SA.

  64. #64
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    Being realistic:

    Fakhar
    Azhar
    Haris
    Asad
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Faheem
    Yasir
    Amir/Shaheen
    Hasan
    Abbas

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Easy choice.

    Amir
    Abbas
    Hassan
    Shaheen or Faheem if you need batting.
    I know the options. I was asking for your preference.


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  66. #66
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    Fakhar Zaman
    Azhar Ali
    Asad Shafiq (60 tests and heís hiding)
    Harris Sohail
    Babar Azam
    Sarfraz Ahmed
    Faheem Ashraf
    Yasir Shah
    Hasan Ali
    Mohammad Amir
    Mohammad Abbas

    6 batsmen
    1 all rounder
    4 bowlers (3 of which can chip in with runs)

  67. #67
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    One hopes for the best for Mohammad Abbas' inclusion.


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  68. #68
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    I think a lineup of

    Fakhar
    Imam
    Azhar
    Haris
    Asad
    Babar
    Sarfraz
    Yasir
    Hasan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

    Should be the best for the conditions. There's no need to play all-rounders unless they are very good batsmen. If you are batting on a day 2 wanderers pitch against Steyn, rabada and philander in top form, it's foolish to expect either Faheem or shadab to bail out the batting. Yes you will always get the odd knock like what Azhar mahmood in 98 or what pandya did earlier this year but these are few and far between. Even Faheem as a replacement for Yasir is not a great idea. Can Faheem bowl 20 overs a day and be effective throughout? Im not so sure if that. Azhar,Asad and haris give enough options to cover the fifth bowlers' quota .

  69. #69
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    Azhar
    Imam
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Fakhar
    Sarfaraz
    Yasir
    Amir/Hasan
    Shaheen
    Abbas

  70. #70
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    We will see 2 pacers Abbas/Amir/Shahin and Hasan, 2 spinners Yasir and Asif, Hafeez as allrounder.

  71. #71
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    How about a 5-1-4?

    Fakhar
    Imam
    Azhar
    Harris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Sarfaraz
    Faheem
    Yasir
    Hassan
    Abbas
    Shaheen.

    Faheem could bat as well as Hafeez or any other newbie we're gonna try, and would be an excellent addition in bowling. Remember we need 20 wickets to win a test match. 4 pacers and Yasir is the way to go for that. The top six to take extra responsibility with the bat.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mute Witness View Post
    How about a 5-1-4?

    Fakhar
    Imam
    Azhar
    Harris
    Shafiq
    Babar
    Sarfaraz
    Faheem
    Yasir
    Hassan
    Abbas
    Shaheen.

    Faheem could bat as well as Hafeez or any other newbie we're gonna try, and would be an excellent addition in bowling. Remember we need 20 wickets to win a test match. 4 pacers and Yasir is the way to go for that. The top six to take extra responsibility with the bat.
    This is 6-1-1-4 with 12 players.

  73. #73
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    Play 4 specialist bowlers. Pakistan does not have any quality all rounders who can provide right balance in Test Matches.

  74. #74
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    Agreed 6-4 is better I think now!

  75. #75
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    Honestly, going with 6+4 is begging for a repeat of AUS tour.

    Faheem's bowling is grossly underrated here at PP. The guy can properly seam the ball and bowls at good pace. His batting may not inspire confidence but when it does come off its pretty damn impactful and might come at a time when the opposition bowlers are tiring.

    Azhar
    Fakhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Sarfraz
    Faheem
    Amir
    Hasan
    Shaheen/Yasir (depending on pitch and conditions)
    Abbas

    In this XI we have 6 specialist batsmen and 5 proper seamers (including Faheem) with Haris as a decent secondary option. Haris is a very dependable spinner and can actually turn the ball in favorable conditions. If we do go with a 5 man pace attack it'd be one hell of a challenge for opposition. Pace and swing from Amir, Shaheen and Hasan. Seam and control from Abbas and Faheem. I'd love to see that.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    Honestly, going with 6+4 is begging for a repeat of AUS tour.
    Conditions will be very different. In Australia the pitches were extremely flat with little movement in the air and they were able to rack up huge scores for fun meaning we were out in the field for much longer.

    In South Africa the pitches will assist seamers so the innings will be shorter. No team in the India-South Africa series scored above 350.

    Also, we had unfit bowlers like Sohail Khan then. Fitness levels have improved a lot since. Plus Sarfraz's deficiencies against pace, and Faheem's unreliability with the bat means 6 and 7 are too high.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    Honestly, going with 6+4 is begging for a repeat of AUS tour.

    Faheem's bowling is grossly underrated here at PP. The guy can properly seam the ball and bowls at good pace. His batting may not inspire confidence but when it does come off its pretty damn impactful and might come at a time when the opposition bowlers are tiring.

    Azhar
    Fakhar
    Haris
    Babar
    Asad
    Sarfraz
    Faheem
    Amir
    Hasan
    Shaheen/Yasir (depending on pitch and conditions)
    Abbas

    In this XI we have 6 specialist batsmen and 5 proper seamers (including Faheem) with Haris as a decent secondary option. Haris is a very dependable spinner and can actually turn the ball in favorable conditions. If we do go with a 5 man pace attack it'd be one hell of a challenge for opposition. Pace and swing from Amir, Shaheen and Hasan. Seam and control from Abbas and Faheem. I'd love to see that.
    When has ever been a time pak getting into a test match with FIVE seamers? NOT Happening. There will be a spinner and there is ought to be one. We struggle usually with pace finishing our 90 overs quota in time. I do not want any part time spinner. One spinner is a must.


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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Conditions will be very different. In Australia the pitches were extremely flat with little movement in the air and they were able to rack up huge scores for fun meaning we were out in the field for much longer.

    In South Africa the pitches will assist seamers so the innings will be shorter. No team in the India-South Africa series scored above 350.

    Also, we had unfit bowlers like Sohail Khan then. Fitness levels have improved a lot since. Plus Sarfraz's deficiencies against pace, and Faheem's unreliability with the bat means 6 and 7 are too high.
    IND-SA series isn't a template to be followed honestly. Plus, Pakistan are unpredictable and I don't even know why I need to say that. They're fine at 6 and 7. Mind you, Shafiq has raised expectations from no.6 batsmen around the world. 6-7 are usually not that reliable. Unfit or not, the fresher the seamers are the better they'll perform. 4 bowler strategy has cost us many times outside UAE. Don't make the same mistakes again and again. We've invested in Faheem and Shadab and so far they haven't disappointed. Give them atleast a chance each.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by CricVet View Post
    When has ever been a time pak getting into a test match with FIVE seamers? NOT Happening. There will be a spinner and there is ought to be one. We struggle usually with pace finishing our 90 overs quota in time. I do not want any part time spinner. One spinner is a must.
    When did PAK ever win a test series in SA?

    Things need to change. UAE formula can't be followed around the world. Cost us badly in NZ and AUS and I remember the same posters were saying NZ green pitches will facilitate our 4 bowler strategy. Result was we got humiliated. We need atleast one all rounder.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadi Rizvi View Post
    When did PAK ever win a test series in SA?

    Things need to change. UAE formula can't be followed around the world. Cost us badly in NZ and AUS and I remember the same posters were saying NZ green pitches will facilitate our 4 bowler strategy. Result was we got humiliated. We need atleast one all rounder.
    What cost us in NZ was our shambolic batting not our bowling. Why weaken it any more than it already is ?


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